I don't like forcing Genres on anyone(though they aren't exactly the most defined or necessary of things), but a friend of mine, I play in a band with him. The only thing is that we end up doing more his stuff than mine, a lot of our stuff is kind of Metallish. We normally focus around stuff we both really like, but I can't ever do goth stuff.

I can't imagine him ever being a big goth head, but I can't see why he can't like the genre in a lesser capacity, he listens to a lot of different stuff, he even likes a lot of Joy Division and has some stuff like Massive Attack and Tori Amos on his computer.

He likes dark atmospheric things and use of effects, and likes the odd bit of keyboardin'.

So I'm not sure...

I need something that can introudce someone like him to something a bit darker and more melodic anyway... I just really want to get him into the deeper end of things, I guess. He wants to write stuff that's pretty "deep", but in the end a lot of it just comes out as metal...

Well, I'd say the obvious thing to do here is burn a CD of the goth songs of your choice. Or just make him listen to a few of your CDs/mp3s and then talk about what kind of sound you want your band to produce after.

You could buy some sort of compilation CD, if you're lazy. For an introduction.

That didn't work last time. It doesn't really give a feel on the genre. He found some good things and some crappy things. If I give him another compo CD, he won't like it. I have a distaste for them in general, unless you're already interested.

He already has heard some goth. I need to find a band that's a good gateway band.

Well, there's good and crappy bands in every genre.

The only thing you can do really is keep introducing him to more bands- from different genres of goth, because he's bound to have distaste for one genre more than the other.

What are his thoughts though? If he doesn't want the band to go down that path you can't force him.

Try something like Dreadful Shadows or Love Like Blood, good gateway bands for metallers.
I also know quite a few metallers who like ethereal and ambient stuff for some reason, like Dead Can Dance, Arcana, and most stuff on Cold Meat Industries.

If he doesn't like it then he just doesn't like it. You can't do anything about that.

Anyways try letting him listen to The Cure and Siouxsie. There nice poppy rythems got me into there darker songs and later into Bauhaus and real goth bands.

This is a metaller you`re talking about, I don`t think he`d be interested in poppy rhythms until he got deeper into the scene....

He finds Siouxsie poppy. The problem is, if he'd have heard say, Juju, he would have liked it, but now he has a distate for the style in general. The Cure, he likes, but isn't a big fan of. He's one of those "Smiths are better" type peopel.

He's never heard Pornography, or any of the early really great Boss effects pedal heavy stuff. Which is a shame. I was searching for it one day, and he said "I'm not in the mood to listen to the Cure", which is a shame.

He absolutely loved the actual song "Vision Thing" and was humming it for some time afterwards. He quite liked some Swichblade Symphony I played him off the first album, but that was down the phone. He said he found that a bit better than the rest. I know that he would actually like that stuff in small doses, but not quite.

I dunno, it's just that he keeps exposign me to metal. I wouldn't call him a sole metal head though, he's a fan of bands like Queens of the Stone age as much of that, and two of his absolute favourite bands are Dream Theater and Muse. He loves Muse so much, and they use many elements from Goth music... some of their songs could even pass for a goth band doing them (Space Dementia, Megalomania, Citizen erased come to mind) in my opinion.
He's most certainly not a "dirty metaller" as he sometimes tries to put himself across, he's more into the powerful atmosphere and technically intricity side of metal (thus liking Dream Theater, I guess) than the "dirty"ness.

Bella Morte seems like a good try. i have a feeling he'd like them, but I think the album I have, As the Reasons Die, is a lot weaker than their normal stuff, at least from other snippets I've heard.

Joy Division... but he already likes that stuff. I'm not sure how much though, could be one of those bands he's "gone off", which happens every so often.

When i first played him goth stuff, I gave him a compilation, he didn't much like a lot of it. I don't trust compilations. He said it would have been good back in the 80s but now it's like taking a bite out of a sour apple in many ways.

He's since become a lot more pro-80s though, unless he was just referring to a single aspect of it, he refers to it as his favourite musical era, and I got him intersted in slightly spoofish 80s style rockers/metallers Lordi, and he loved the 80sness.

He also has an obsession with the Van Halen song Jump.

I don't know, it really looks like I should be able to get him into it. There's some kind of Stigma over goth music, people just listen and hear the deep dark atomsphere and decide it's too depressing to get into.

You could try giving hime some Sanctum tunes. http://www.crescens-collective.com/?q=node/view/12 (The Lupus in Fabula album would probably fit his taste)

Or maybe some Seigmen.

How does he like Nick Cave?

The Quiet is a good Bella Morte album you could try that if you can get hold of it.

I think avoiding bought complations is a good idea as I find with all compilations they always put on tracks that don't fit in or are relevent, like the Dark Side compilation is almost all goth bands except it has some bands like Rammstein and Godsmack on and for some reason The Rasmus; I did get it for my friend for christmas and he loved it, he's into rock and metal but really likes Nick Cave now and enjoyed tracks by bands like Alien Sex Fiend.

I think playing different types of goth bands is a good idea. I mean what was on the compilation you gave him? Was it mostly classic stuff from the 80s like SOM, The Mission etc? Maybe he just doesn't like that type. You could always try different types like deathrock, batcave, darkwave, ethereal etc or you could check out the stuff in the Newer Goth Bands thread and see if he likes anything there. It might just be a case that he thinks goth is stuck in the 80s and just needs to hear some fresh blood.

There were a couple of Sisters songs, a few (now, I realise, badly chosen) Alien Sex Fiend songs, 1 or 2 Bauhaus songs, and Wumpscut's "Angel", because it was pretty. I put Stayin' Alive on the end as a joke.

I don't rember for sure, but I'm sure to have the image lying around or something.

Yes, try exposing him to the darkwave side and the more dark/atmospheric/harsh side of things.
Maybe Trisol Records has more his style???

I think there's an alternative option to using music. Find a goth girl that's roughly as attractive as your friend and tell her that your friend wants a date with her. If she accepts, tell your friend that this gorgeous goth girl is interested in him (you could tell him that she said she'd prefer him if he was a bit more gothic - just so he knows what he needs do to impress her). Get them both to go on a date and see if that works - love can make people do bizarre things!! I've seen friends change beyond recognition for the love of a woman - although they started off as goths and turned normal or into metal

The down side to this would be that your friend would now be spending all his spare time with his new girlfriend

If you think he's more likely to go for 80's goth music and he's into the technical aspect of the music, try Sex Gang Children - they're definitely not poppy and their music structure can be extremely intricate. It's worth a try - top tracks include Sebastiane, Mauritia Mayer, and Into The Abyss.

Good luck anyway.

Well try and find bands that follow that same formula, as the bands he likes... try to avoid the overly cheesy stuff. If he likes black metal, then he probably can hold on to a bit of folk influenced music... bands like Lacrimosa, Sopor Aeternus, etc. might help.

Also some bands might require a bit more listening to "grow" on you. Getting someone to gothic music can be a real pain in the behind, and sometimes you just might fail miserably.

Turns out he doesn't like Joy Division, because he finds their songs kind of pretentious.

He quite likes Bauhaus' Stigma Martyr. The band I've hand the best luck with is Switchblade Symphony, but he doesn't like a lot of Tina's singing. I haven't properly played him Serpentine Gallery yet though (I think later on her singing wasn't quite as consistant). I know he'll like Mine Eyes, because it's a bit like a "darker" Stratovarius song in someways, who he likes.

But the main problem is getting him into ANY music. I couldn't even give him a Dream Theater album, and Dream THeater are definitely one of his favourite bands ever. He says he has enough music already, and the only new music he's gotten lately is stuffh e's being trying to find for months.

I'll try playing him Serpentine Gallery, but I can tell there's some he'll find a bit pretentious if I play the whole album through, so I'll just play individual songs. He knows about Bauhaus though, and realises what they're all about. He has a bit of a mixed opinion, though.

I just don't want our bands music to go too much down the metal route just because we both like Metal. It's nice to reach a happy medium, but the problem is that our happy medium ends up being closer to his side, if you know what I mean.

He did smile a lot of the prospect of me getting an 80s style monophnic analog synth though, and thank me to introducing him to the world of guitar effects, so that's a good start on the road to my kind of music, which uses tons of both.

I think the perfect band for our "in between" is Muse. They have elements of Rock and Metal, and also Goth and Alt Rock. Matt Bellamy is probably the guitarist who influenced my style the most, though Daniel Ash's style of plaing is really starting to get thrown into the mix, and Josh Homme's messy soloing style too.

If he won't even listen to music from one of his favourite bands, now is a bad time to get him into new music. I'll have to wait a little while... I just don't want to end up something I enjoy doing so much going too far away from the types of music I love. I have no problems playing Metal, even the heavier variety like Decapitated he'd listen to, but I do have problems not playing anything in any way Goth.

I hope people understand and don't think I'm trying to change a person's soul