I don't judge you, in fact before your direct attacks against me, I thought you were all right.
as for what you're offended, by.... I really don't get it. I see nothing at all wrong with making the goth scene stronger, and not only sticking up for ourselves, but sticking up for each other and being who we are with pride.
In which way does that paragraph advocate violence, belligerence, arrogance, or shoving anything down anyone's throats??
Is having honour and integrity something to be treated with disdain??
If so, then we're in a completely different ballpark as far as ethics are concerned.
I encourage, yes.... but I don't preach.
This could all be a case of skimming through and seeing what you want to see.
In all honesty, if one looks for evil, then evil one shall find..... and you shall find plenty of evil within me, as I make absolutely no move to hide or deny it, as many others will do. Judge me as you will.

Perhaps I've seen enough people try and take advantage of goths, and perhaps I've just seen enough "goths" trying to take the easy way out of apathy and self-pity. Either way, it inspires me enough to at least want to make a change, because when that stereotype becomes common enough to be problematic, as we can see with outsiders seeing goths as "easy targets", then we know something is most horribly wrong. Wrong not only with how we project ourselves, but even down to the point with how we accept ourselves.
I've seen those who refuse to accept their own subculture, right down to the point of treating their OWN CHOSEN TASTE AND CULTURE as something to be ashamed of!! When one can't even TRUST what they themselves claim to believe in, or be part of, that really says all over that they neither know themselves nor fully understand the culture they claim to adhere to.

Goth was once bold.... quite bold, and tough... as was the punk scene parallel to it. In some countries, it still is, but in many others, something has definitely weakened.... be it understanding, pride, integrity, or all of the above.

On some flipsides, I've seen positive active education about the goth scene to the surrounding community, and for the most part, I wholly applaud it.

However, in some rare and unfortunate exceptions, I've seen so called "goth activists" stoop to such levels of hypocrisy as to openly condemn, ridicule, and slander the darker aspects of their own subculture, such as connection with the occult movement...... coming full circle and becoming exactly what they claim to despise: prejudice, intolerant, and above all else, ignorant...... all in the name of trying to win "acceptance" from the mainstream.
Well, congratulations...... in providing the public with a skewed "Goth: the Cut and Censored Version", they may have won the stamp of approval from the very society that would want our demise, but in the process insulted and shat all over everyone who made the goth scene what it is.... or once was.
That's something I cannot respect. If you want to educate people about the lifestyle you support, show it for what it is.... not a lie. If one wants absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "the dark side", then do not pretend to be part of it!!!
At least accept this subculture as something you believe in and respect, and show yourself a little more self respect..... the judgment of others be damned, it's your life and you should be PROUD to live it!!!

Anyhow, rant over, and I honestly hope you don't take this as a personal attack against YOU, because it's not.
Just further clarifying myself so I don't have things I DID NOT SAY come back to bite me in the ass again.

P.S. I think Oi! and the skinhead scene are very valid parts of the punk subculture, as is anarcho-punk and crust punk.
If it were not for Oi!, which was one of the most important periods in the punk scene, anarcho-punk would probably not exist.

Intervening for a moment to say just how much I LOVED the part I have quoted.

We're moving our goalposts a bit, aren't we? Let me remind you:



And:



You continually talk in "us" and "them" terms. You actively seem to SEEK enemies, even when there aren't any. While you may not pick fights, why do I have a feeling trouble follows you around? And the glorification of "warrior" culture... Doesn't sound like a peaceable, live-and-let-live type to me.

The "shoving it down people's throats" comes from the fact that you seem willing to bring it out almost mantra-like every time you seem to disagree with someone who DOESN'T subscribe to your worldview.

As for advocating violence, belligerence, and arrogance, I'd say the paragraphs I've quoted pretty much speak for themselves.

Certainly not. Yet you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes "honour" and "integrity". If it isn't the "way of the warrior", it's cowardice and apathy.

I see honour and integrity all around me, and I work with it... You... just see enemies.

Right. Yah. Let's take a look at this, shall we?

Eg - You're better off the centurion way.

Centurion's guide to how to live your life.

And, I should point out here that positive/negative stereotyping is a form of judgment - "I like THIS, but I don't like THAT" which is rather at odds with the claims you make for yourself being open-minded, don't you think?

Do you deny that the posts above are your own words?

This sounds like a threat. And, for my part, while I like to resolve these matters myself, should you make any move against me I will notify the admins.

You see... You have no compassion for them. You don't even have the courtesy to call them goths, although goths they may be.

AGAIN you come across as paranoid in the extreme. What is wrong with seeing an opportunity to build bridges?

Ummm... I've never seen this. I find the idea bizarre. As you rightly say, if someone considers themselves part of a culture, why turn around and deny it? It doesn't make sense.

Well, as goth is effectively an offshoot of punk, you'd expect it to share some of the parent culture's attributes. However, one of the things I admire the goth culture for is that it literally looks through a broader prism at the darkness, and actually thinks through what it's trying to say. At least, in most cases.

But, again with the "lacking integrity" thing... Are you the only human being WITH any??? Because, if so, I'm going to feel considerably slighted!

But?...

Again this exhibits a distinctly narrow view of what constitutes goth. It has to be goth the centurion way, or, it just isn't...

I find this so frustrating. Why do you think that no one else has that self-respect?

And, don't tell me how to live my life. I'll live it exactly as I choose, thank you.

Really. And the threat was... what?

The items quoted here are all your words.

Evidently you didn't really read my post.

I don't know what to say to all of that except that I'm not seeing the offensive things I'm supposed to be seeing?

I think we could do worse than seeming like a band of 'Dark Warriors', personally. What happens when using our words doesn't work? Do we curl up in a ball and let some bully kick our heads in? I'm going out swinging if some douche thinks it's funny to get violent with me.

Using our brains and our personalities - with which we all appear to be exceptionally gifted - should always work.

If that fails - run.

Running is not an option for me, but others can flee if they feel comfortable doing so.

One big happy family!

I'm a pacifist until someone steps over that fine line, whether in dealing with myself or another, undeserving individual.

"To learn how to use a sword, one must first learn when to use a sword." -R.A. Salvatore (What a nerd this Mors guy is! )

12.

.... whatever. I'm not going to waste HALF A BLOODY PAGE of this thread picking apart someone who apparently hates me so much, it has to OOZE off the screen.
No one here needs to see that, and I'm very sure the mods agree.

Again, you LOOK for evil, and miss the points. Such as misinterpreting one of my paragraphs COMPLETELY as some sort of "threat"!!!
Looks like I'm not the paranoid one here......

It just proves my meaning behind what I said.... you look for things you want to see.
An what i MEANT, was I'm no good guy or boyscout. I have absolutely no desire to hide my dark or evil half.

Yes, I have my opinion, and I'm brutally honest about it, I know. You can't be honest these days without making enemies, and I've made a few of those, as well as friends. However, if you had any integrity in YOUR opinion, you wouldn't be wasting everyone else's time hijacking entire threads to pick apart a single person whose opinion you dislike.

Anything further, PM ME!!!

Back to topic:

Well, I'm an unhappy goth. I see two people who I like and respect (as far as you can tell online) having a little spat. Personally I belive it to be a clash of personalities from opposite ends of the culture. Please take
some time out... and feel free to shoot the messenger.

-LS

For what it's worth Centurion, I"m not 100% sure where the other poster is seeing your "threats" or anything like that. And I agree with you.

Both people involved in the little fracas have taken it to PM. It's now a private matter between the two of them. Let's respect that and keep it private, and try not to take sides. And let's also move on (get back on topic), so this thread won't need closing.

Thanks.

-- Nephele

Today, I am Lazy Hot Goth.

Oh me too. I'm just wearing grey shorts and a purple cami. TOO. HOT. XD

there is nothing but Victorian and Baroque, every thing else is a tad to modern. when i say a tad i mean it is beyond words to discribe how modern it is. when i go out side and see cars, and not a single horse drawn carriage i feel quite and utterly dead inside.