Sub cultures of subcultures confuse me.

I thought a rivethead was a type of goth and I thought Industrial music was a type of music that goths listen to, especially rivetheads and cybergoths. So many times I see the "goth/industrial" genre listed together and one can't forget Wumscut's, "Homo Gotikus Industrialist".

All right, so why is this posted in Wikipedia?


"Rivetheads are different from goths in ideological and musical terms, as well as in their visual aesthetics. Confusion regarding the boundaries of those two youth cultures has heightened because of recent (mid-1990s onwards) hybridization, which has led some people to believe that rivetheads are a goth offshoot, which is untrue.[11][12][13] The Canadian novelist Nancy Kilpatrick calls them "Industrial Goths",[14] as does Julia Borden.[15] Borden locates the period of crossover as beginning in the late 1980s and becoming entrenched in the mid-1990s.[15] The rise of Cybergoths, at the turn of the 21st century, further contributed to this crossing of boundaries.[15]"

Now I know Wikipedia is not the be all and end all, but it has helped me somewhat in classifying genres of all types of music.

To further add to the confusion, this site lists rivetheads as a type of goth, but it also lists deathrockers as goth and I know some don't want to be identified as goth.

So what am I missing?

I could try and define the differences and the similarities, but I'd be somewhat inexpert. The person who'll be able to give you a good definition is Centurion.

Hi OnyxSoul

Blackwaterfall lists lots of type as 'Goths' e.g. metalheads and emos, if you read a bit more or speak to her she will tell you that she is being really inclusive, although personally she is aware of the differences. She is using the term 'Goth' the same way we used to use 'alternative'. Mostly I find that any darker aesthetic is termed 'Goth' by the mainstream. i don't bother to correct them as they are never interested anyway...

Rivet heads- Wikki is indeed correct that Rivets are not Goths- I'd describe them as distopian. The 'alternative' scene is usully quite small compared to the main stream and most towns can only support one 'alternative' club so all genres and types get thrown together in clubs- which creates all kinds of interesting cross-overs and appreciation for other music tastes- indeed most Goths do enjoy a variety of music including Industrial, classical.. you name it.

Hope that helps.

...or, on the other hand, maybe Tish could give a good definition...

Indeed! I finally succeded in finding a club near my town that, to borrow your words, throws in all genres and types from goth to metal, from industrial to indy rock, anything considered alternative has a 1h space to be played (with the exception of metal that when played takes from 1 1/2 to 2 hours space, ah, the benefits of a metalhead as a owner )
There is a funny and interesting mix of people in there and apparently I'm the only "goth" looking in there... where would you find me? next to metalheads patiently waiting for the "industrial hour" to finally end...

Hi Tish,

Yes that was very helpful.

Now that you put it that way, it makes perfect sense why the different genres an subcultures mingle. The music and styles may differ, but we are all alternative folk.

I find myself playing the "guess what subculture he or she is in" game while on the train.

So since Rivetheads are different from goths, how do they feel about mistaken for goths? I'm assuming that happens sometimes.

-- Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:57 pm --



The metalheads were PATIENTLY waiting, you say?

OK - new "kid" here - doing major catch up....trying to figure out all the Goth denominations if you please... To learn, I watch, read and I listen - what would be good examples of goth music...like with rock - you have heavy metal, soft rock, pop rock, rockabilly etc....is there any "crossover goth" as in here I was listening to goth all along? I am looking for the range from mild (?) as they say in my neck of the woods, "pansy-assed" to "shock your mama goth." thanks.

The Rivets i know ceratainly do NOT like being confused with Goths- just as much as Goths hate to be confused with Emos, and Vintage stylists do not liek to be confused with Psycho or Rockabillys. It can all get rather funny!

I also like to play guess the genre- but my bitchy fashionista side likes to note their mistakes- opps!

Sydatnight- sorry not the best authority on music here but I do know that there is every type of cross-over you can think of- from Goth/ metal, Goth/ mainstream etc. - down to Punk/ Country if you believe it! (think it's called Cowpoke or something similar)

Like I was






I think this thread might be of great interest to you

CLICK ME

Hey, thank you for turning me on to that posting - thanks to Blood Rose too - a great site...clarified a lot for me...makes me even more hungry.

This is a great example of why I think we should just adopt the 'Schwarze Szene' label instead of dividing ourselves into smaller and smaller sections of who's doing it 'right' and who's doing it 'wrong'. Right and wrong are subjective to each person in the scene.

I'm pretty cool with calling it all Goth, for the sole lulz of annoying oldschool Goths :p

I'm cool with it for upsetting the elitists.

It is very interesting, though, just how many Rivetheads, and especially Rivet DJ's, that I have met who loudly claim to absolutely despise Goths and Goth music.

Either those are just a few elitists living in Florida or we don't have any kind of Rivet scene in Texas. It's all black so I don't know why people bitch.