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Goth Documentary: You Pick

No limits here. Just a discussion about everything gothic.
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Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Nephele » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:36 pm

Let's say a film team has gotten together to create a documentary on goth subculture. You have been asked to consult on the film. What would you suggest they include in the documentary? What would you tell them to NOT include?

Go!
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Midieval Fantasy » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:22 pm

Include:

History of Goth Subculture
The evolution of the culture
The misconceptions
The types
The Cookies...

Not To Be Included:

Gothic terminology...I'd rather shock them
Goth Card and goth Points
We lied about the cookies....

:)
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Fawila » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:49 am

The history of subculture, how it evolved, what influenced it.
-this would include music, literature, movies, other types of arts, e.g. theatre, burlesque, artists like Giger (the guy who designed Alien). perhaps some influences from historical periods and why they were important (e.g. medieval times, Victorian era, Georgian era...).

General differences in goth subcultures between countries

Different roots of subculture, some common interests/characteristics of members, sub-roots if there are any.

Our make-up bags and a breathing exercise tutorial for corsets fans. In DVD package exclusive material on how to walk in sky-high platforms and tips on how to walk stairs in long skirts and coats without loosing your teeth in the process.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Singwhatyoucan'tsay » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:41 am

I agree on the history, evolution, music, etc.

Talk about how the internet has changed things, especially for those of us who live in small towns.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Nephele » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:12 pm

These are all great ideas you all have!

As for me, I think I would include interviews with people who, while not necessarily goth themselves, have portrayed characters in film which influenced public perception of goths. Two of these would be Fairuza Balk and Pauley Perrette.

Who's next?

-- Nephele
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Auraneity » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:58 am

I watched a goth documentary on Youtube before but there was something that always bothered me about the documentary. They didn't interview many day-to-day Goths and ask them what they do in their free time aside from going to goth clubs or associating with their goth friends. I kind of wanted them to show the "normal" aspect of Goth subculture. It isn't necessarily what people expect to see in a goth documentary considering its always about focusing on the main points such as the fashion, history, and music, which is always put into focus.

Maybe if not put into a documentary, it should be put into a video perhaps with a compilation of responses to common goth questions from "fully dressed", "plain" , "biased" and "neutral" Goth, Goth-haters,etc. Just to have it so that everyone has an overall perspective.
But this is all just my opinion. :)
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby ∞ Sanguine Law ∞ » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 am

More than anything, I think I'd prefer objectivity. I'd like them to include Gothic culture, as well as how Goths really view life. Not every Goth sits in the dark, rocking back and forth, listening to Cradle of Filth, getting upset about small things and proclaiming everything to be pointless. Goths are humans too! Show the people how they entertain themselves, how they live, work and feel about the world.

I can't think of anything to exclude, really.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Arquinsiel » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:08 pm

Auraneity WroteColonI watched a goth documentary on Youtube before but there was something that always bothered me about the documentary. They didn't interview many day-to-day Goths and ask them what they do in their free time aside from going to goth clubs or associating with their goth friends. I kind of wanted them to show the "normal" aspect of Goth subculture. It isn't necessarily what people expect to see in a goth documentary considering its always about focusing on the main points such as the fashion, history, and music, which is always put into focus.

Maybe if not put into a documentary, it should be put into a video perhaps with a compilation of responses to common goth questions from "fully dressed", "plain" , "biased" and "neutral" Goth, Goth-haters,etc. Just to have it so that everyone has an overall perspective.
But this is all just my opinion. :)
OH! This, so very this! Beautiful post. Fuck all the history, the music, the terminology... just show a goth at work, and a goth taking the kids to school or whatever. If you're going to shoot a bit about a goth AT school do it outside the USA, or in a school there that has uniforms. This documentary isn't for us, because we know this shit. It's for people who think we're scary and "other".
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Mr. Tony » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:25 pm

First off, they need to include a picture of me on the cover. Just kidding. I feel the history of Goth has been told enough. To be honest, I'd just like to hear real people's stories. I would make it on people who simply enjoy the "goth lifestyle." I think people should know what a great time we have. With me, if I want a history lesson I'll read a book.

I'm a new alternative person. It was never the history that appealed to me personally. It's not what got me into this. You can say I'm more interested in the social aspects of it all.

History is important, but it doesn't define people like me who are new and do stuff differently than those who were goths in the 80s. I'd say I'm not very relevant to 80s goths at all. So, with me saying that, I would base it on newer goths, not trad goths or history. Blasphemy? Maybe.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Nephele » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:07 pm

Arquinsiel WroteColon
Auraneity WroteColonI watched a goth documentary on Youtube before but there was something that always bothered me about the documentary. They didn't interview many day-to-day Goths and ask them what they do in their free time aside from going to goth clubs or associating with their goth friends. I kind of wanted them to show the "normal" aspect of Goth subculture. It isn't necessarily what people expect to see in a goth documentary considering its always about focusing on the main points such as the fashion, history, and music, which is always put into focus.

Maybe if not put into a documentary, it should be put into a video perhaps with a compilation of responses to common goth questions from "fully dressed", "plain" , "biased" and "neutral" Goth, Goth-haters,etc. Just to have it so that everyone has an overall perspective.
But this is all just my opinion. :)
OH! This, so very this! Beautiful post. Fuck all the history, the music, the terminology... just show a goth at work, and a goth taking the kids to school or whatever. If you're going to shoot a bit about a goth AT school do it outside the USA, or in a school there that has uniforms. This documentary isn't for us, because we know this shit. It's for people who think we're scary and "other".


I like this, too! I would still include my interviews with Fairuza Balk, Pauley Perrette, etc., and juxtapose some of their movie/television scenes as goths with the scenes of actual day-to-day goths. The purpose being to explore how closely (or not closely at all) the media portrays people who are members of goth/alternative subculture.

For example, while most of use might agree that NCIS's Abby Sciuto gives a positive presentation of how goths can be cheerful people, what about the reality that not everyone who dresses or behaves like Abby might easily keep a government job in an otherwise conservative law enforcement agency?

Our day-to-day goths might reveal that the reality is that we can't dress the way we want all the time, unlike goths portrayed in film. Even the scenes of Fairuza Balk in The Craft, where she has improvised on her Catholic school uniform, could be compared with actual goth students talking about how real or unreal those particular scenes are (never mind the rest of the movie), as they discuss what happens in their own school when they try to express themselves similarly.

So, I'd like to see a comparison between goths portrayed in film with goths in real life.

-- Nephele
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby sgath92 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am

Instead of focusing so much on the history, and music evolution there's a lot more current topics that probably don't get much attention; like The Goth Cruise, Bat Days at disney, Whitby, WGT... you know, stuff that is still going on every year?

I think we're probably ten years late in talking about what k-12 students have to deal with, it seems like the average age of goths is going up just based on what I see in public. Though that would mean there's a lot of people out there who have to deal with uniforms at their job.

A documentary would change a lot depending on geography it was covering. From what I hear the scene in Brazil, Mexico, etc is closer to what its like in the US & UK than the Schwarze scene of central Europe. Centruion's posts about Japan describe a place that is fairly unique in itself. Then there's places in the middle east that have been in the news for killing "emo kids" [but over there that's just a generic catch all phrase for alternative-types]. Setting makes such a huge difference.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Lachrymose » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:46 pm

1. As has been sort of stated before, disassociation from animal torturing/killing, self-mutilation and other awful acts so as to put into perspective the percentage of (shall we say) non-goths who commit crimes compared to their social group (normal people), which may be higher than the percentage of goths who commit such crimes. I don't especially have a statistic on this, and I don't see how there could ever be one because:

2. Sub-cultures such as this tend to involve those who like to maintain some sort of individuality. At least in the best scenario they would though this is not always the case, but this is a point worth mentioning.

3. I would like stats on how many goths have post-high school education and to what degree ( :lol: ), how many abuse drugs/themselves/others, what the median income is etc. I think we'd come out pretty well.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Fawila » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:46 am

I don't think I would like stats like these. Stats are just numbers, there is absolutely no background knowledge to them. One thing you would probably find is that people slightly more serious may not necessary consider themselves to be goth, more like having interests in "gothic stuff" or fondness for fashion. Those more exited about the label may actually represent all bad stereotypes about subculture.

It is almost impossible to create an objective questionnaire and get to representative sample. Where for example you would advertise it? On vampirefreaks? You know who makes majority of people on VF...and close-knit forums don't do much good either as the likelihood of "socially desirable answers" is greater.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Arquinsiel » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:07 am

You don't advertise, if you're making a documentary and want to get a good base to work from (and assuming a real budget) then you're travelling around to shops and clubs to find people.
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Re: Goth Documentary: You Pick

Postby Fawila » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:39 am

Well, sad truth is you do advertise. You basically have to put an advert that you're looking for participants for a documentary and you need huge data for such stats. Its known as self-selected sample, not very representative but easiest to do on huge scale. Random sampling is impossible since there is no official data of goths as a population, so you couldn't use it. The same goes for any other type of sampling that you use to select participants from particular population.

Shops and clubs are probably the worse place to make such study, because you basically will get only those who like clubbing (so no data on goths who dont go to clubs) and do their shopping in person, not online (and so majority of goths I know is missing from such data).

The only sensible, but still not perfect way, would be to get as much volunteers as possible and ask random goths on streets if they have time to answer few questions. But you will miss anyone who doesn't look gothic enough in subjective eye of volunteers. Plus, most people are normally to busy to stay and answer bunch of detailed questions, unless they have nothing better to do, the weather is nice, they're in a good mood and so on... So again - not objective. Going to huge goth gathering like WGW would provide a nice sample of people coming from different backgrounds, but depending on the time of the year, weather, bands featured on music events etc you may not get sample that reflects the real "population" of gothic subculture.
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