Hello everyone~!!

This would be my first post here, I briefly looked over some of the threads and it seems to be a pretty interesting place. So I just registered as a member, hehe...


Am I a poser??? Am I "goth" at all??? Those are the questions to be considered here...but let me tell you my story... Get your coffee...it's long...


I have to say, I myself, am not really too certain as to what sub-culture I particularly fit into. Sometimes, some people refer to my style as "goth", where-as others may refer to it as "punk". I really don't know anymore, I'm kind of confused.

I used to have a very unique style, when I was in my late elementary, all of junior high, and early high school years. I went to an elementary school, which was in the later years overrun with "skaters". I went to a junior high school, that was dominated by "preps". Both schools were in different areas, so I had some "skater" friends and some "prep" friends. I was influenced by both sub-cultures in the way I dressed, and even how I talked. But I was neither a "skater", nor a "prep"; I always wanted to fit in, but no matter how hard I tried, I always different. I developed my own style based on "skater" and "prep", but I also liked 8 Balls and Harley Davidson Motorcycles. My favorite bands were Green Day (Dookie) and the Offspring (Smash).


I was going to post pictures, but with my posting permissions HTML is not allowed.


No "goth" related subjects, yet, but I will explain my evolution in a short time. In short, when I was approximately 10, my parents caught me wearing ladies clothing; when I was approximately 12, my parents caught me wearing makeup. Ironic really, for a young "bad ass" (hehe), my parents would never understand, so I always tried to keep it a secret, my friends never knew.

Now we're getting closer to the "goth" related subjects. After college, I worked at a call centre. What made it special was "diversity", it was one of the most important things to this company: different ethnic cultures, different ages, different youth sub-cultures. I took notice of how everyone was very comfortable and open with each other, and I remember a man who was undergoing gender re-assignment, how (dressed as a lady) she was "just like one of the guys". And this environment, helped me open up, and be more confident with myself.

I made friends with a "punk" and his odd friend known as "slacky". I felt so shy when I first asked them if they could tell me where I could buy a pair of "hooker boots". Becoming more confident, I even asked them where I could get a "spiked collar like for a dog". And some hair dye for my little brother? They recommended a Goth shop known as "Sanctuary" on Whyte Ave (official name oddly enough, it's 82 Ave in Old Strathcona).

I began wearing makeup to work, and large fuzzy hair scrunchies on my wrists like bracelets (something I adopted from one of my trainers, though she was a woman). I was happy...

I later went down to Sanctuary with my little brother, they sold hair dyes (pink, green, blue, red, etc), pleated plaid skirts (red & black checkers, blue & black checkers, etc), coats (with large buckles), striped shirts, sleeves, striped leg warmers, spiked collars, boots (knee high, platforms, high heels), wiccan books and items. It was so cool, I loved it, and the skirts were so cute...I fell in love with the boots too...

I fell in love with the shop, and slowly tried to work my way into the style. Though, at the same time I also gathered some girly accessories and ideas from regular stores. I love fuzzy toe socks, leopard ears, bunny ears, thigh high socks, jelly bracelets. It was fun mixing up different items and clothes, whether it was potentially Goth or not, it was lots of fun, same goes for the makeup. I also began to collect santa hats, military berets, etc.

Sometimes, I feel confused, most of all, when people label me with words like "punk" or "goth". I began to slowly try to critique myself, to try to figure out what sub-culture I belong to; most often, it would just lead to frustration, sadness, and a feeling of self-inflicted rejection by not fitting into either sub-culture. I like different clothes, I love makeup, but I don't really fit any other category. For music I like: Avril Lavigne, Hilary Duff, Ashlee Simpson, Lindsay Lohan. For TV I like: Lizzie McGuire Show, Kim Possible, CardCaptors, Gundam Wing, InuYasha. For movies I like: Johnny English, Mean Girls, Resident Evil, The Bourne Identity, A Night At The Roxbury, Bulletproof Monk. Hehe, for music I don't listen to anything hard or heavy, just really soft stuff. I even have a fuzzy little teddy bear, I call him "Crunchie". For movies, I don't watch anything scary or gorey, I get scared too badly, and gore makes me squeemish. I like some of the clothes, makeup, and hairstyles that general society associates with (for example) Goth or Punks. I think it's really cool, but I also gather my inspiration from other places, including cartoons, music videos, video games, and movies. I get alot of ideas for makeup, fashion, and hairstyles from Japanese cartoons. Sometimes, I wish I were more creative and make my own clothes, but I'm sure I'll get there someday.

Overall, I've always wanted to fit in, and I started wearing makeup publicly after being in a fostering and nurturing environment that gave me confidence and moral support. Sometimes I wonder where I fit in, sometimes I'm happy feeling like the only weirdo in the whole place (at the gay-lesbian-bisexual nightclub I sometimes hang out at), or being some "kid" sitting in the mall on the floor against the wall (just thinking to myself) though some people seem to mistaken me for being homeless). I think some of the other things that really make me happy, and make me realize, in a way, I do kind of belong: (1) When a girl with black hair, lots of eyeliner, and a black & white striped mini-skirt sat down beside me on the bus. (2) When I was downtown, and some girl and her boyfriend walked up to me and talked to me for a bit, and commented on how they liked my boots (my knee high platform boots). (!) It's times like that, that make me most happy, because when I'm most down it makes me feel like I do fit in, even if there is no defined group of individuals like in school when I grew up with the Baturyn Skaters or the Rosslyn Preps.

Lately, sometimes I wonder if I'm a poser, I think most of all I only really feel like a poser when I try to categorize myself into one of either the "Punk" or "Goth" sub-cultures. But, when I look back on how it all started, it was just about me wearing makeup and just being myself, and how confident I was, I wasn't really thinking about "how I can fit in", I'm a young adult, I'm not a kid anymore, I don't need to conform to social standards.

I came to the Goth.net forum, because it looked interesting, and possibly a bit smaller (but still quite large). I thought maybe that I would like the topics covered (makeup, clothes, hair, etc), and maybe I'd like the people that post here. I never really did too much with forums before, I have a membership with (in my opinion) one of the world's largest forums, but I never really got attached to it, it was too big for me, and I'm not sure what people will say about my posts. Many of you probably have memberships with the forum, I'm not just not pointing fingers or giving names, but I think I'll like the Goth.net forums, I think it will be fun here.

Thanks alot for reading my rant~!!

Sincerely,
...

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to use my real name?? Hehe...it's Justin...but maybe I'll call myself "Just_For_Now"...hehe...


I was going to post pictures, but with my posting permissions HTML is not allowed.



[ THE END ]



Since, I just registered, and I cannot post yet, I decided to read the article "What Gothic Is and Is Not" on Goth.net. After reading it, well, I was a bit disappointed, but when I remember the conclusion I came to at the end of my story, I don't feel so bad anymore. Because, well maybe I don't fit in, but who cares, I'm different, and this is me. I may not be "goth", I may not be "punk", or "skater", or "prep", but I'm me~!!

If by not listening to certain types of music, or enjoying certain types of books, means that I am not "goth", oh well! If I have to fit into a defined category, to be considered a "goth", isn't that conformity?? If I have to conform to belong here, or to be considered as belonging to this sub-culture, then I don't want to be here. I just like being myself.


[ Fin ]


I wrote that like 48 hours ago (my perception of day and night is skewed right now), when I first registered and didn't yet have posting privileges. Since then, I have received my confirmation email verifying my posting privileges, and I just wanted to explain something. I admit I was a little too melodramatic when I wrote that second portion, and I'm sorry. I'm not so frustrated anymore, I think I'll like it here, and it looks like a really cool forum. I'm much more mellow right now, and I'm happy to be a member of Goth.net .

[ That's all folks! ]

That's a very interesting article, jt. Don't concern yourself with it being melodramatic, either. Being a romantic, I appreciate emotional expression. There's a difference betwee n that and teen angst, however, so keep that in mind.
I don't know if I'd call you a poseur, but I can say with certainty that I feel "exploited" in a sense, in the way that you adorn this subculture's fashion, but apparently have no interest in it. It makes me feel like it's starting to be no more than another trend, like the gothic lolita look in Japan.

MAny stores like hot topic are full of poseurs. Bloodhound gang was good before it got on the radio now it's poseur.It's getting anoying.

And you are not a poser

I have to disagree. They weren't any better before they got on the radio. But then, I speak as someone who used to go to their parties.

I think you may also be confusing "poseur" with "sellout" or possibly "lame", which is somewhat different.

You used to go to there parties so did I. But i mean they sort of went wide spred After they got on the radio and people that didn't even know them where singing there songs so I got mad.

Thanks jkruin , I appreciate that. :b


Justin...

Hello...

It's nice to know that I'm not considered a poser, thank you everyone. I think I should stop worrying about where I fit in, that should help.

I read your reply, Draconysius, though I've been trying to think for a while now of how exactly to reply. I write something, then delete it, I think about it, and re-read the post again. On the one hand I appreciate your positive response (thank you), but on the other hand I feel disappointed. Disappointed in myself, I don't know... The second half of your (I'm not familiar with forum vocabulary or slang) "message", keeps me up late at night, thinking, wondering. Not yet, but I have been thinking about it for probably 2 hours now. I feel almost responsible for...well I feel bad for (I can't think of the words) "bringing down the Gothic subculture" (if you will).

I don't know how I feel other than bad, right now. I remember that my friends Eddie and Amanda always told me never to regret anything. Natty always told me never to feel bad for something that I had done, in cases where it wasn't my fault, and that in her eyes I haven't done anything wrong. Sometimes I feel righteous and ignore other people's feelings, but another part of me often feels regret and guilt for things that I have done.

I don't understand why any of you feel the way you do, but I think I can relate to what you're saying.

If the sub-culture became mainstream, it would loose its sense of meaning. To be different than general society, to be outsiders and outcasts and rejected, I am assuming is the most important thing. To be "different" than everyone else, while everyone else is "prep" (hypothetical example). While everyone conforms to the designated dominant sub-culture of the moment, some individuals want to be different, possibly causing them to be rejected by general society. When it becomes popular and mainstream, everyone wants to be just like it, and everyone will be all the same. How very boring, no longer outcasts from society, but that was the most important thing from the beginning, it's now lost its originality, it's no longer special anymore. I mean this last few lines, entirely from a hypothetical standpoint to explain what I mean, I don't know if this is what is happening in present day, I'm just basing this on how you pointed that it may (in the future become) '...no more than another trend'.

I kept asking myself earlier, why do some things have to be "underground", why is it so important to be different? I think I finally realized it, in my paragraph above.

I know how you might feel, I feel the same way, but on a different subject. I remember when Avril Lavigne came out with her music video for "Complicated". I had a crush on her, I thought she was so pretty, I loved her blue eyes (nice strong blue color, in that music video atleast). And what made it special to me, was that I felt that not alot of other people liked her much at all. I was happy, because I thought she was pretty, and I felt that I was the only one, especially if everyone else hated her (not the case, but if it were). Sk8er boi, kind of disappointed me, the video was okay, but I didn't like the song or the video too much. She seemed to becoming an icon, everyone was talking about her, I kind of missed the days when I didn't hear much about her (and nobody seemed to like her but me). When she came out with her second album, I saw a few of her music videos, and I thought she was so hot. I liked her makeup, and I loved her frilly skirts in her videos "He Wasn't" and "My Happy Ending", and I loved those fairy wings and the pink ooze coming out of the walls ("He Wasn't"), and I liked her top that she's wearing at the end of the video "Don't Tell Me". When I noticed people commenting on how hot she is, and I listened to her songs... I felt that she had changed so much from her first album, she seemed to have a different sound, her songs seemed so soft. Her songs were never hard, not at all (hehe), maybe I just never noticed. The way she dressed in her music videos now, was different than before. I like how she looks, I liked how she looked before, and she doesn't seem like the same person anymore. And so, I don't really like her as much anymore... I only have a few artists in my collection (Avril, Hilary Duff, Ashlee Simpson, Linsday), and so I still like Avril's music, but I don't think I'll buy her next album. Infact, I don't know if she'll come out with another album, I kind of think she might drop out of the music business like Billie Piper (hehe, I had such a crush on her when I was like 12 or 13, Billie Piper I mean).

So, I think I understand what you're saying, I'm guessing, I don't know for sure, and I think I kind of know how you and other people must feel.

*smiles* I think I'll sleep better tonight... Fortunately it's only mid-afternoon here right now, in Canada.

Sincerely,
Justin...

P.S. I think it's been a pretty warm welcome, thanks everyone~!!

Oh god send for the Inquistion the warhammer people are coming Suffer not the Heretic so on and so forth....

Anyway I never did the poseur thing, I read stuff like Bryron, Keates and Coleridge and wore black alot, like gothic stuff and claimed my parents and aunts record collection as mine when i was younger which included stuff like Bauhaus, Joy Division, the mission. I sort of was brought up in bits of it, I never really rebelled either, first time i got a pair of New Rocks when i was 15 the only response i got was "didnt they have any with red flames?"

My poser stage...well, I don't call it a poser stage so much as a "finding myself" stage. I probably was a poser but I think it's such a harsh word. It took me...hmmm...about a year to find myself properly. And I'm glad I put in the effort. You have to learn the rules before you can break them and now I'm quite happily Goth and metalhead.

I never went through a "poseur" stage, and I always had a pretty good idea about what goth music what and wasn't, but I went through a phase of trying way too hard. I would wear a long velvet skirt and boots even if I wasn't planning to go anywhere, and I'd wear loads of make-up even though I wasn't particulary good at applying it at the time (thankfully I am much better now). I'd also bore people to death with "oh, <band name> is so not goth, it's <genre>".
Thank heavens I'm over all that. Nowadays it's just black t-shirts and jeans and a bit of eyeliner, unless I'm actually going somewhere. And I've calmed down now with my genre snobbery, much to the relief of my friends. :b

It was pretty bad. I'd wear make-up and cheap chains and shit (no, not like the Hot Topic look, just like... a jackass, really) and I'd be ridiculously melodramatic. Nobody really liked me before, and this certainly didn't help.

I think it's worth noting, in my defense, that during this period my favorite bands were Radiohead and My Bloody Valentine. Certainly not goth (though an argument could be made for MBV) but not awful either.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm over all that silliness. Though, I do believe that I had to go through it. At least I didn't wear girl pants and listen to He Lays Bleeding and Dying or whatever the kids like these days.

Now, it's mostly black shirts and pants. Sometimes, I'll smear red eyeliner over my lips and eyes, rat out my hair, put on a leather jacket, and go out dressed as you-know-who, but that's rare. If I do it too often, it'll spoil the fun.

jkruin: A band whose music is on the radio is not a "poseur" band for that reason alone. Any musician that tries to appear goth/punk/emo/etc. but does not have any of those ideologies (other than the appearance) is what can be called a "poseur" band. There are other "poseur" bands called such, though, simply because they create music for ANY OTHER purpose than self-expression. (for sex, drugs, cash, fame, etc.)

jtrudel13: You're pretty much correct about the gothic subculture intended to be underground. For me subculture is about being a freak, a psycho, a nerd, a fag, and enjoying every damned second of it. If the subculture went mainstream, it really wouldn't be a SUBculture anymore, would it? For a long time, I've seen people that dress gothic and -even worse- claim to be so in the process. It angers, saddens, or sometimes even frightens me when I see people abusing the name of the subculture, the ideology, and the art. It makes me fear that people outside the subculture will see these self-appointed "goths" as indeed -goths, and they will continue spreading false information about the subculture.

Po-seur ?

???

I admit that there was a time when I didn't know nearly as much about the sub-culture as I do now. We all go through the baby-bat stage. But it's more a learning experience than 'poseurism'.

I've never pretended to like or know about bands which I didn't and I've never dressed to 'freak out the Norms'. So as far as I know, I've never been a 'poseur'.

I never really went through a poser phase per se. i did listen too korn and slipknot and all of that when i was younger but i didnt call myself goth because i actually was well aware of what goth music was. And i used to shop at hot topic because back in the day Hot Topic was actually a decent company (before they where talen over from the inside by people who where completely bottom line versus before the main founder of it actually belived in having quality clothes and stuff, true story yep)
Then i got into neo-folk and darkwave (which i currently think is the only genre still producing good goth music) then i started listening to goth and deathrock music, and dressing the part more.