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Brexit

A specific place to discuss the state of local, national or international politics and other related newsworthy or debateable topics.
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Postby MercurialMe » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:28 am

What.
The.
F-U-C-K
Britain?!?!

This has all made me take the threat of Trump much more seriously. I was toying with voting 3rd party (Green Party: Jill Stein) when it became clear Sanders wasn't going to become the Democratic nominee but now F*** that S***! I'll vote Clinton, eat my vegetables & say my prayers in the desperate hopes the orange terror doesn't get his tiny hands on the arguably most powerful position in the world.

*shudder*

I do NOT want progressive voters crying on TV saying: I didn't know my vote would count. Or Americans in general Googling the next day "What's the difference between the government & reality TV".
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Postby Red_Ink_Cat » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:49 am

MercurialMe WroteColonQr Bbpost What.
The.
F-U-C-K
Britain?!?!

This has all made me take the threat of Trump much more seriously. I was toying with voting 3rd party (Green Party: Jill Stein) when it became clear Sanders wasn't going to become the Democratic nominee but now F*** that S***! I'll vote Clinton, eat my vegetables & say my prayers in the desperate hopes the orange terror doesn't get his tiny hands on the arguably most powerful position in the world.

*shudder*

I do NOT want progressive voters crying on TV saying: I didn't know my vote would count. Or Americans in general Googling the next day "What's the difference between the government & reality TV".

Please do not buy into the negative politics. Voting for Clinton just to stop Trump is still voting for the corporatist "evil." The number of scandals Clinton has been in, the ongoing FBI investigation, her being supported by anti-progress big-wig bankers and billionaires? She just sounds like Trump if he knew how to or cared to censor what he said.

Do not be afraid of Trump.

That is what they want. Britain left the EU over fear. If we end up with Clinton or Trump, it will be because of fear. Fear of immigrants, fear of Trump, fear of oppressive government, fear of war, fear of Clinton. When we vote in fear, it is so much easier for them to get us to vote against our own self-interests.

Fear is a controller.

Look it in the face and shout it down. Vote for Stein if she is where your heart is. That is how this is supposed to work. Don't let them bully you into voting for someone you fundamentally disagree with just because the loudest person in the room is scary.

Do not let them silence you with fear.
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Postby MercurialMe » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:30 pm

Did I want Sanders to be the nominee? Yes.
Do I like Clinton? No. (I think at best she's a moderate Republican)
Do I feel of the two viable choices she's the lesser evil? Yes.
Am I sick of voting against someone rather than for someone? Of course.
I understand your points Red_Ink_Cat BUT I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are other ways to revolutionize the system than burn it down & start from scratch. Further I won't fall into the trap of not voting or essentially invaliding my vote by voting 3rd party. If you think progressive causes have a long row-to-hoe now just imagine the state of them after 4 years of Trump with a GOP lead house & congress with another conservative justice on the SCOTUS bench. It's literally too horrible to contemplate. I'm not voting out of fear so much as evaluating the available choices and deciding which is best for me & the things I hold dear.

On topic: I have some dumb American Brexit questions... Can Britain still be referred to as European? Will it still be able to compete in the Eurovision song contest? Or for that matter compete in European Football Championship after this year?
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Postby Black Milk » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:27 pm

Britain is still European, it's just no longer a member of the EU, which is an economic, Political & social alliance.
Well...actually it's still a member of the EU until it enacts article 50....which it may never do...so...

Brexit won because people aren't represented in politics, so they did the opposite of what politicians told them to do, Brexit won because there are "liberals" that think a "protest vote" is a thing, Brexit won because the media fully indulge extremist views because it sells more than facts, Brexit won, because fascism is growing in power all across Europe, racism too, just as much as it is in the US if not more so. Brexit is a symptom of the times we live in, and honestly, these are pretty scary times.

Something that doesn't seem to be getting any attention outside of my Island, *if* the UK exits the EU, and *If* Northern Ireland (who voted to stay) goes with them, that means the reintroduction of military borders & the "Good Friday Peace Agreement" essentially thrown out the window, literally talking about war here.
So while the rich shuffle for power, people are going to suffer one way or another.
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Postby MercurialMe » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:19 pm

Black Milk WroteColonQr Bbpost Britain is still European, it's just no longer a member of the EU, which is an economic, Political & social alliance.
Well...actually it's still a member of the EU until it enacts article 50....which it may never do...so...

Brexit won because people aren't represented in politics, so they did the opposite of what politicians told them to do, Brexit won because there are "liberals" that think a "protest vote" is a thing, Brexit won because the media fully indulge extremist views because it sells more than facts, Brexit won, because fascism is growing in power all across Europe, racism too, just as much as it is in the US if not more so. Brexit is a symptom of the times we live in, and honestly, these are pretty scary times.

Something that doesn't seem to be getting any attention outside of my Island, *if* the UK exits the EU, and *If* Northern Ireland (who voted to stay) goes with them, that means the reintroduction of military borders & the "Good Friday Peace Agreement" essentially thrown out the window, literally talking about war here.
So while the rich shuffle for power, people are going to suffer one way or another.
:) Thank you for answering one of my questions. I do know what the EU is I just wasn't sure title-wise what was going on with Britain after the exit.

I think the Brexit happened because of something much more complex than nationalism & xenophobia. It's a similar anger that's brewing in the US that politicians aren't listening to "the people" so much as their moneyed backers & consolidating wealth/power behind the scenes on our backs... All while the rest of us have less and less opportunity. Sadly when people are pissed they are less likely to listen to complex answers that work but simple ones that don't.

The possible dissolution of the 'Good Friday Peace Agreement' has actually been brought up here in the American news cycle (albeit briefly) in the Brexit fallout. I really hope after almost 20 years of relative peace everyone in your slice of the world is more willing to come to the table & resolve this situation peacefully. Who knows maybe this will be a uniting factor? :?
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Postby SapphireDreams » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:50 am

The whole thing is a fucking nightmare. I don't even know where to begin! I just despair. (I voted for the UK to stay in the EU by the way, anything else is just wrong.) I spent a week feeling very angry, and now I'm just watching everything fall apart. (And I've just checked the value of the pound against the dollar, it's lower now than it was the day after the referendum! Same with the Euro. One of the small ways this is going to impact on my life, as I buy a lot of stuff from overseas.)

I was thinking about the Good Friday agreement, there's been nothing about it on the news over here, but I'm sad to see my worst fears be confirmed. Sorry Ireland. :(

Added in 7 minutes 13 seconds:
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... UR&view=1M

Pound to Euro chart.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... SD&view=1M

Pound to US dollar chart.

That's not to mention the $2.1 trillion wiped off the global markets. It doesn't even bear thinking about, (it dwarfs the £350 billion wiped off our economy overnight.) There will be casualties, people are going to lose their jobs. :(
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Postby MercurialMe » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:54 am

I'm sorry Sapphire. I wish I had some up-side for you but I really can't see one now. Hell America is staring down the barrel of our own nationalist nightmare. *shudder* I can only imagine how bad our economy would tank with Trump at the helm. I guess you just have to "Keep Calm and Carry On" :lol: I've wanted to use that unironically for YEARS!
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Postby SapphireDreams » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:05 pm

One upside is that Nigel Farage (who is a Member of European Parliament and campaigned for us to leave the EU, yeah, I know!) is now out of a job, and he's resigned as leader of Ukip and now wants to work in Europe! Ha! Good luck matey!
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Postby MercurialMe » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:30 am

SapphireDreams WroteColonQr Bbpost One upside is that Nigel Farage (who is a Member of European Parliament and campaigned for us to leave the EU, yeah, I know!) is now out of a job, and he's resigned as leader of Ukip and now wants to work in Europe! Ha! Good luck matey!
Yeah he's a prime example of: be careful what you wish for. He's tanked any & all hopes he ever had of becoming PM. 8-) That's at least some justice in all this.
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Postby sgath92 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:43 am

Red_Ink_Cat WroteColonDo not be afraid of Trump.


There is plenty of reason to fear Trump. It is very difficult to glean any inkling of what he actually thinks about things besides immigration & trade. But after listening to him I notice he makes subtle, rare off-hand comments about other issues, and when he does, they aren't good.

He's for austerity and is going to bring it to the United States.

Notice how he is totally in favor of Puerto Rico going into insolvency. They are in debt up to their eyes, have no way to pay it back on their own, and he has explained he's against the feds doing anything to help them beyond forcing them to cut services there.

This would be a scary idea indeed if applied to the whole of the United States.

That is what they want. Britain left the EU over fear.


Its not really because of fear. Its because of anger, and to be truthful, I don't blame them. Their elites have been forcing them to undergo austerity, treating them like criminals for needing social services, while seemingly not caring about how this effected them or what anyone thought about the policies they were putting in place.

Meanwhile the elites are getting stronger, getting away with whatever they want, and people are rightfully upset about it.

Its not propaganda but truth to say that the refugees/migrants that get into the United States or Britain have it better than some of the poor who were already there. In the United States someone disabled from birth for example, has to live off of $733/month if they collect SSI. That's less than $9,000 dollars. If they marry, that amount actually decreases. If they live with family, that amount plummets to less than $5,000 (I guess as an incentive for family to refuse to help them).

Similarly disabled people in Britain meanwhile are being intentionally dropped from their social welfare plans thanks to these job-center "box checking" departments that have been shown time & time again since 2009 to be fabricating unjust reasons to kick people out of the program who truly need it.

Meanwhile anyone from the 3rd world can come in, pretend to be a refugee (even if they are from a country that is not currently involved in any kind of war) and get twice the amount of services automatically, and is not being forced to settle in the first EU country they enter (as was originally required by law). Being able to travel throughout the EU to pick the country with the most generous welfare policies is not how this was supposed to work, yet it is what is being allowed... or even encouraged to happen.

Perhaps because it devalues the labor in these other countries, to the benefit of the elites.
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Postby Nephele » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:41 am

There's more reason why Brits are angry. My in-laws over there, who actually voted against Brexit, nevertheless are angry, too. They've told me that the governments of Spain and Greece provide a guaranteed salary to every citizen, regardless of whether they work or not – and that includes the able-bodied who simply choose not to work.

How much of this is true, I'm not certain. But I do know that people in Britain who work hard and see little advancement for their efforts are angered at the thought that fellow EU-ers were getting paid to do nothing. That's where they saw their British money going.
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Postby sgath92 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:26 pm

There's more reason why Brits are angry.


Agreed, you raise a good point and its probably not the only other thing that would be angering them.

It seems that the EU bureaucrats get to create regulations EU members are forced to follow, with their citizens getting little say on the matter. Some of this is common sense consumer protection/labor rights issues but not all.

One of the things the EU regulators wanted in recent years was to ban people with diabetes from being able to get driver's licenses. Meaning millions of Europeans would be loosing the right to drive, for no apparent medical reason. No appeal process, no compensation if they currently need to drive as part of their current job (i.e. taxi drivers, truck drivers, contractors, plumbers etc). What a nightmare.
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Postby MercurialMe » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:15 pm

Just heard Boris Johnson got appointed Foreign Secretary. It's kinda like appointing Sarah Palin Secretary of Education.
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Postby SapphireDreams » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:41 pm

*cries some more* Thankfully he'll have sweet FA to do with the negotiations with the EU, as our new PM very wisely set up a whole department for that. I hope they take their time, long enough for Labour to get in and scrap the whole leaving the EU thing. *hopeful*

Here's two links to the thing about diabetics driving, it's not a blanket ban by any stretch of the imagination, and it seems our own regulations were stricter than the EU's.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/Ne ... -diabetes/

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/rea ... riminatory
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