Hi everybody,

you may have immagined I was going to do something like this sooner or later.

The Italy thread has been closed, from my perspective for very good reason, and I really don't fit in in any other regional topic in the european section owing to my lacking finances and scarce probability to be travelling anywhere in the near future.

The reason of this topic is to give a chance to me and anybody else living in a european country with no other representative on the board (morana, maybe?) the chance to have European Headquarters




where other board members can inform us of events in our countries (in case someone else is as slow as I am getting information -.-" ) or we ourselves can talk about events in our countries.


If I see this topic closed I will cry a lot and whine all over the board about being a poor homeless child!

Cassie, forgive me for not noticing this earlier.

I think a big problem with the regional threads is that they don't appear on the main board. You really have to go looking for them. When there's so much else going on... That isn't at the top of most people's priorities. Heck, even the American regional boards go largely unnoticed. Which is a shame, because obviously, it results in threads being closed before they have the chance to take root and prosper.

Another issue is... That of language. So few of our European members stay long because in the end the fact that this is an English language forum eventually becomes too much. And that, too, is a great shame, because I think European contributors have wonderful insights and perspectives to bring to goth.net. I certainly hope morana will notice this thread (a PM might help? ), and PerkyBat, as well. I'm not sure where Stargazer is, but I have a feeling this thread may well cater to him, too...

I think, overall, that this thread is a brilliant idea. I hope it will get the attention it deserves, and if nothing else act as a "common room" for European members to come and hang out. I appreciate that, in many regards, I'm actually catered to with a number of British-oriented threads, but will regularly look in on this one too, if I may.

Minnie, you're a sweetheart, I never though anyone would actually notice that I've stopped posting, or would, er, sort of miss my presence. Also, almost forgot: your new avatar and new name is lovely. ^^

Though, honestly, I doubt there's much going on here in this country that would interest anyone on these boards. Maybe, some people might be interested in Sziget Festival, but that's more of a mainstream attraction than anything else, except on the rare occasions when they manage to get The Cure play there. (That happened, like 7 years ago? XD)

Like, twice a year some proper goth band plays here, and that's it. For instance, this month The Sisters will have a gig, and few weeks ago Fields of the Nephilim would have played here but in the last minute it was cancelled, because the place that would have hosted the gig got closed down, as the asshat owners of the place lacked some necessary permissions and they were also careless and idiotic enough to organize some techno or whatever night there and let in almost double an many people as it would have been still safe, so when a stampede broke out because of reasons still unknown, 3 teenage girls died...
I still can't decide which makes me more more pissed: the fact that 3 young girls died because of the greed and stupidity of the owners of that place, or the fact that like 50 people from various parts of Europe has already booked a room, bought a plain ticket and the tickets for the gig, when it turned out that basically we're fucked. I know, human lives are more important than money, but I still feel sorry about those people who spent a good amount of money for basically nothing and they couldn't even get a refund on their plain tickets and room bookings. -_-"

Er, yeah, probably this was not entirely on topic, but I felt like sharing it. Hope it's sort of the thing Cassie had in mind when creating the topic.

Thanks Minnie! Most then everything for noticing the post

Yes Perky, this is more or less what I had in mind...
As I said somewhere else over here the goth scene is quite... absent... we need to mix up with metalheads and rockers if we want to have a place, and they are nice enough to organize a few moments with goth music during the evening.

I see your point there. We had a rock disco over here that got closed because after a techno/house evening a boy got stabbed with a knife and a couple of guys were arrested, apparently the wrong ones...
Events like these should put the accent on the fact that mainstream is not the safe harbour it used to be anymore. We have plenty of discos closed and people uder arrest for pushing drugs on teenagers, an incredible amount of teenagers pushed to prostitution by their school mates just to get the money for a cell/mobile phone or for a brand new pair of shoes or a skirt or a dress, because the money they get from their parents are not enough to get the expensive clothes mainstream culture suggests or better imposes on them...

From my perspective the fact that you point out that 3 lives were lost and many people lost a lot of their finances for the greed of a few is very important... the world we live in is shaped in a way that even the smallest money loss is a disaster for most.

Anyway, I heard recently rumors of a gothy pub opening or better slowly changing into such near my area...

Perky, you'd be surprised who notices what. I'm pleased the post caught your attention!

You've raised a number of interesting points. Firstly, it may seem that things are relatively quiet in Central Europe, but it has to be pointed out that thesedays the Sisters and FotN virtually bypass Britain in favour of touring in Europe. Why is that? Because the demand is greater, the audience for the music bigger. It's a sad irony, but in the country which effectively gave birth to goth, the scene is fragmented to nigh-on non-existent. I live in England's fourth largest city, with a population of close to a million; "goths" get one monthly club night (which is all industrial/EBM - yah boo sucks to any goths who like bands which play guitars) and one of our pubs occasionally puts on a night called "Sanctuary" - but again, the music is mostly industrial, with a very bizarre mix of eighties stuff thrown in.

It's a shame about the FotN gig and the reasons for the cancellation; it sounds as if there needs to be far better regulation of both crowd management and ticket sales where you are. I'm certainly not saying that bad things don't happen here, particularly with people getting ripped off on ticket sales - unfortunately, they do, but it sounds as if the situation there is considerably more lawless.

Cassie, it's good that that there's a kinda integrated scene in Italy, where rather than skulking off to look moody in the corner and glower at everyone else, members of other subcultural groupings are actually getting together and cooperating for mutual benefit. The thing is, in the end, most rockers and metalheads will probably enjoy some gothy music - again, FotN are the ideal crossover - and as we all know, a lot of goths enjoy listening to other genres of rock.

However, in the end, it is good to have a place you can call "home" which caters specifically to gothic tastes. Ultimately, a shared experience isn't going to cater to the peculiar needs of the goth subculture, so I'll certainly look forward to hearing more about the goth pub. I hope it happens!

You make a marvellous point about the mainstream, although I'd have to say that, in this country, at least, it's never been desperately safe (hell, I nearly got stabbed walking home one night back in 1978 passing a disco which had got to closing time!). I know goths can be a little image conscious, but I agree - in the mainstream, materialism and making sure you have everything that your friend has (or, if possible, sometyhing that they don't have, yet) is an absolute mania. But while the companies producing the goods obviously encourage people to go crazy for them, that's only about 60% of the job done - the kids have to want to have the things too. And often, the other 40% comes from the spurious buzz that gets created by the "must have" mentality. I wonder what would happen if just a few of them actually stopped and said, "No - we don't want this"?

I'm sorry it took me so long to eventually write something. The truth is though, that I really have no idea what could I contribute.

The only thing I know that's going on here is Castle Party - a somewhat gothy annual fastival taking place in July.
Apart form that - I don't know of anything else. I've never been interested in gothic events, that is one thing. But even if I did... I seriously doubt there's anything attention/money-worthy in this country. I mean, if goth artists follow the example of the mainstream ones, then they all keep as far from us as possible >.<

As for any local scene - I think only a few of the bigger cities might have something like that (not sure though). Nothing where I live. I sometimes wonder if there are any goths in my town, really. And, to be honest, in a town like the one I live in, all forms of cultural activities/events are in a tragic state - but that's a entirely different issue, I guess.

On a brighter side, I'm not that far from Germany (awesome, isn't it? )

I've heard of the Castle Party - I came across it while searching out XIII. Stoleti videos on YouTube. It looks like a fun event, in a really neat environment.

I wonder, though, if the reason the Polish scene is somewhat quiet is because it IS relatively easy to get to Germany? After all, Wave Gotik Treffen is, in terms of exposure, the most important goth event in the world - and it's in Leipzig. And, from everything I've understood, the German scene is still relatively active and comparatively well-organised.

I think you've raised another important issue, though, which is relevant across Europe. As we know, goth has a very "homespun" feel; the DIY ethos pervades all aspects of the culture. As a result, many events tend to be somewhat ramshackle affairs, with bands that don't tend to get a lot of live work and aren't particularly well-known outside their immediate area... As a result, it's difficult to get too enthusiastic about going to an event because you simply don't know what you're letting yourself in for.

And, the matter of taste comes into it, too. As I've mentioned in other threads, in Sheffield, we have an occasional event called Sanctuary, which puts on live bands. The reason it's occasional is because not enough goths turn up to make it worthwhile turning it into a regular event. I really wanted to go to the last one because I wanted to show support (unfortunately Fate in the form of a blocked sewer ordained otherwise), but although the event was advertised well in advance as having a bill of live music, the only act who was ever confirmed was a band called The Gifted - I checked out their MySpace page and was disappointed to find that they're an industrial band - and alone among the goth-related genres, I absolutely really don't like industrial music. So, even if I'd gone, I wouldn't have really enjoyed it...

I am highly tempted to visit Sheffield for this.

I mis-read the Facebook page and thought it was tomorrow... Hmmm... Will have to think about this one.

I'd love to see Covenant...

Enclosed the (incomplete) Gothic Festival Calendar 2011 Germany with contributions from Poland, Czech, Austria and Norway... http://www.festivalhopper.de/festivals/genre/gothic

Europe's biggest:
mera luna 13-14 August, Hildesheim http://www.fkpscorpio.com/meraluna/

The programme: http://www.fkpscorpio.com/meraluna/programm.aspx

There is a mainly electro festival on 16/17. July in Cologne with an interesting line up: Nitzer Ebb, Covenant, Feindflug, Hocico, Agonoize, Leæther Strip, SUICIDE COMMANDO,
http://www.amphi-festival.de/

Thanks, Demon - that's a really, really valuable contribution!

Interesting to see that the top of the bill on the main stage at M'Era Luna on Saturday night is a band who aren't goth at all. Really. No, really! (Why do I get the feeling no-one believes me?)

Well, it's not like the Polish scene totally doesn't exist - I searched a bit, and there are some things organized in the bigger cities. But still, it's three or four cities, while the rest..
You may be right about the active scene in Germany contributing to the fact (indeed, there were some annoucements on Polish forums about events taking place in e.g. Berlin). Something tells me though, that the key factor in the Polish scene invisibility is simply that it's.. in Poland.


I think it's particularly off-putting for those who don't live anywhere near such events and would have to travel a fair distance with the sole purpose of going to anything. And the prices over here aren't too encouraging, either.


Thank you, demon17!! =)
WGT and M'era Luna win for me.

The list of festivals kindly provided by Demon is just... shocking. I had no idea that there was really so much on offer to goths of all stripes. With travel in Europe thesedays so much easier, it's hardly surprising that some of the countries in the neighborhood of Germany simply throw up their hands and say "Well, why bother organising our own events when there's this much available just across the border?"

And while I'm glad the German events exist, if there's any truth in my rather simplistic speculation, then... I'm saddened. I'm a great believer in the idea that every country has its own unique culture, its own unique take on what it is to be goth/part of the dark wave. It's therefore a shame if all that individuality is being sucked into an amorphous, homogenous, super-cosmopolitan scene. No wonder there's such a preponderance of "industrial"/EBM type bands at these festivals; I've tended to find that bands which play goth rock tend to incorporate the typical musical motifs of the countries from which they spring, whereas bands which play "doosh doosh" music (as I believe Lostindreaming calls it) really have no character and are ultimately appealing to the lowest common musical denominator.

Do I have a message here? Yes! Be PROUD of your scene, and if you (and this applies to me just as much as it does to you, morana, or to anyone contributing to this thread) have the chance to do so, encourage others to be proud of it too! Shout about it - make everyone hear!

Yes, indeed - when I made my previous post on this subject, I'd intended to mention that goths in, for example, eastern Poland, would have a much harder trek getting to an event like WGT than those living near the German border. And, although everyone across Europe is now spending the same currency, the availability of disposable income certainly isn't equal across the Eurozone - so what may, to more affluent members of the EEA, be perfectly affordable, is prohibitive to people in countries whose economies are still developing. This, to me, is a further incentive for the scenes in various countries to organise their own events, and - on a slightly grander scale - a massive disincentive for having a unified currency.

Sisters of Mercy? Unheilig? It doesn't matter any more. I never would go there. I don't like the big events. Someone who's looking for that what he might call the real stuff should visit the WGT. Everybody has to choose his own programme there. I don't think the festivals in Germany prevent the development of the scene in other countries. In fact the gothic scene is much to small to be able to abandon of the contributions of other countries. But sometimes there is this "Is there anybody out there?" feeling. Look at France, a few good songs and no further information anyway. A Festival in Poland is more than that. There seems to be a bigger scene in the Netherlands lots of EBM in Belgium an the rest is silence. Even England ... well there are still some bands, enough of that.

We expect a lot of central and eastern europe in the next years morana. Something of the real stuff which is not so comerzialised like the "Empire of Darkness" in Germany. (It's awful Minnie, better run when you see the letters EoD) But they make the scene. 3 magazines choose between the variety of Bands or projects who are willing to pay them to publish their songs on the monthly cds. I'm not proud of that, but too many people try to live from here. But the worst is behind us and I'm looking forward for the new sounds from all over the world.