I thought y'all might enjoy this article (linked below). The author offers evidence to put forth the premise that the United States, far from having been founded on Christian principles (as the Religious Right continually insists), was actually founded on pagan principles.

Here's an excerpt:



Enjoy!

The United States, a Country Founded on Paganism

-- Nephele

Wow, I'll be honest I never though of it. Thanks for linking that Nephele.

i hope this request isn't to forward, but could you guys send a little bit of positive energy my way. I need the extra push to make it for these six months until i get my AA. Then I will be able to leave the "family" stress in my rear view mirror on my way to Tampa.

Oh my gods! I love that article! Thank you Nephele. If Thomas Paine was a pagan, I really wouldn't doubt it nor would it surprise me. Though many of the founding fathers were theists, they made it very clear that this was NOT a Christian nation and that we have freedom to choose our religion and not be prosecuted for it. Granted- they fucked that up as soon as they can over here, and the settlers were just as harsh as their English counterparts when it came to enforcing religious codes.

However, it is clear the settlers came here to escape religious propaganda, regardless of it the first settlers were all Christian or nor- they can to leave behind an oppressive religion- freedom from religion. That is what we were founded on (but I will admit to being limited in my knowledge of this subject).

When the founding fathers wrote the Declaration of Independence, I'm sure that religion was no small feat and it was addressed rather explicitly - we have the right to choose. If we were a christian nation- it would have been documented as such within the context of our government. But the founding fathers made sure that we had the freedom to decide for ourselves.

Now many people want to say that the governmental laws were based on the bible- and maybe some points were- but most of the laws (don't kill) are common sense and you don't need a book to tell you not to kill people- it should be a 'duh' thing. This brings us to holidays. First off- Christians knocked off pagan holidays to make it easier for pagans to convert to Christianity. However, despite the stealing of our sacred days (and hey, we're willing to share!) holidays was the governments way of appeasing the people and giving everyone days off or days of celebration. Secular holidays isn't a new idea- it's been that way from the very beginning. We just tacked religion onto it to make us feel less guilty (after all, Christmas isn't spoiling your child, if you are bestowing your kid with a gift like the wise men did to baby Jesus for hos 'birthday').

Anyway, it really comes down to what Thomas Jefferson said:

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one." -Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

Hell, I claim Thomas Jefferson to be a kindred spirit in the religious arena, no matter is beliefs. I know consider Paine as such too.

---

Hades- you have my well wishes and positive energy being sent your way.

Hmm an Atheiest Pagan.... quite a paradox. But, I recently found a type of spirituality with many Gods who are not of much importance yet they control us with only one prime creator of creators running some type of muti dimensional multi level New World Orders? but, I think it was just imagery for something else. Has anyone heard of the new unfolding Pagan/Masonic Spirituality?

Being an atheist does not necessarily preclude being a pagan as well. The term "pagan" has historically been applied to both practitioners of polytheistic beliefs and people who do not follow mainstream religions.

While an atheist may not believe in the actual existence of god(s), an atheist (or non-theistic pagan) may nevertheless draw inspiration from various pantheons, as well as learn from and delight in the beauty, art, and psychology to be found in ancient polytheistic archetypes. It is this shared appreciation that unites both theistic and non-theistic pagans.

-- Nephele

Yesh, that exactly, Nephele, I could not have stated it better myself.

I am a pantheistic polytheist. Pantheism is a belief that god(s) and the universe(s) are one- that there is no seperation. God(s) exist not outside of the universe(s), just as the universe(s) exist not outside of the god(s). Because they are one, there is no such thing as a 'creator god' so to speak, in pantheism. There are also no real personal gods because everything and everyone is god- how do you personalize something that everything in existence is? I can call myself a goddess and it be true (and it is) because I believe everything bares the face of the gods- because we are all natural beings.

I am also a polytheist- I believe in many gods. I draw my inspiriation from them and even have a patron god and goddess. Now, do believe these deities (patron god and goddess included) control my life, actions, or even give a damn about me as some sort of higher being parental figure? Hell no. Do I believe they are actual living beings at all? Not really. I think they are the personalization of energy to explain natural phenomenon. A religious twist for explanations of science and nature.

In the most basic of sense I worship nature and nature's energies. I could worship fire as fire as as easily as I could worship fire as the Hawaiian Goddess Pele. Now personally it is easier to harness energy if you personify it (at least for me).

I can draw from any panthenon, even monothesitic religions.

However, as I do not believe that god(s) exist outside of the universe(s), I believe in no real creator god (though I LOVE the myth of the goddess Chaos), and I believe the gods to be created from out own imaginations to expalin the natural world- in a sense (a very barest sense some might call me an atheist).

It is because of reasons like this (and what Nephele said) that people can see themselves as an 'atheistic pagan'. For me, pantheistic polytheist is (again in its barest form) a big way of saying atheistic pagan.

I hope that made sense!

That really cleared things up



a little

And to let the late, great George Carlin put it another way...

"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to 'God' are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate."
–- George Carlin, Brain Droppings

I chose to believe that this was intentional, for it is far more wonderful this way.

That reminds me of what the druids say, "Without the god(s)/energy of life, humans could not exist. And without humans, the god(s)/energy of life could not exist."

I view the divine as the though energy put out by humanity that has become life in it's own way. By continuing certain thought forms we perpetuate the divine and they, in return, direct the universal flow of energy back to us. To me life is a cycle similar to the water cycle, if one part fails to perform it's task the cycle stops moving and if left motionless life would cease to exist.

I just read something and had to share it here.

This is an in-depth comparison of Pantheism and Paganism. Just....wow. I'm speechless.

What do you all think?

Pantheism ⊂ Paganism.

I tend to agree that Pantheism is a subset of Paganism.

By making the claim that "Pagans are pantheists" (as the article does) one suggests that all Pagans must be spiritual. And I don't believe that all Pagans are necessarily spiritual.

-- Nephele

I am still kind of confused on whether I would be considered a pantheist or not. labels just plain make my head hurt.

I've considered myself a pantheistic polytheist for quite a while now, but the more I read about pantheism, the more in love with it I fall and it fits to perfectly with paganism for me.

Also, here is a link on Atheistic Paganism.

I got into it with an elitist female today because she said that atheistic pagans didn't exist (obviously they do, because here I am), so I wanted to share this link here as well.

It states that: