Welcome to The Paganism Thread; A little piece of gnet that can serve as a haven to those of us who are Pagan and just so happen to be Darkly Inclined.

My reason for creating this thread is much the same as Minnie's reason for the LGBTQI thread: There simply isn't a good forum that serves both Goths and Pagans alike. The more spiritual forums I searched (and joined) the more alienated I felt from it because I didn't think like they did, not really, and I hate feeling like an outsider. I thought maybe some members here have had the same problem.

So I was hoping that this thread could be similar to the LGBTQI Issues and Related thread, only it is about Paganism in general.

---
I'll start:

I have recently bought the book entitled Nocturnal Wicca, but haven't had the chance to read it yet. I think the idea of it, though, would be of some interests to Goths, since we tend to be dark in nature and Nocturnal Wicca is a dark form of Paganism.

Also, I have been doing much pondering lately, mostly on reincarnation- of which I firmly believe in. My question is this:

Time is created by man, and theoretically has no beginning and no end. Things simply are. On this same token, if incarnate means to be embodied (in whatever form) then reincarnate would mean to be embodied again. However, again isn't specific of an actual time- is it?

Basically if time has no beginning or end If then do you think it is possible to reincarnate into the past the same as a person reincarnates in the future?

It could be. I never thought about that. I lean way more towards paganism than any other religion, I think.

Good question, Midi... and one that has the capacity to break your brain if given too much thought

I see it this way... reincarnation is the ability of the soul to learn as much as it can, and seeing as one lifetime is not enough to do this it rests after each incarnation and then jumps into another human host and starts again. I personally would see no reason to discount the ability of the soul to reincarnate into the past, but I also see no reason for this to happen... I see no point to it, the past is gone and cannot be changed (unless through time travel, but that is a different subject). We know about the past because it has been recorded and cataloged and is, well, past.

The present and the future, on the other hand have yet to occur and to me offer better possibilities for growth, change and understanding, so in order to move forward and learn they provide much better options than the past (which is better understood through past life regressions than past time reincarnation).

Like time itself moves forward, I believe that reincarnation does the same. The past is for making mistakes, the present is about figuring out what needs to happen to put them right, and the future is for making sure that the lessons of the past are learned and never repeated.

I hope the above makes sense (sometimes I have the ability to waffle on a bit about things like this )

All are welcome here!



This actually makes perfect sense to me. Yet at the same token that makes me wonder - yes there are many lessons that current and future time incarnates can help up grow, but so also can going back in time.

I say this because, though you can read about it- you cannot truly experience it. In this age, and in the ages following there will be technologies and a certain detachment from the land. In the old days people were very much attached to the land and life was much more simple (in a basic, barbarian way).

However, who is to say that we have not already lived in those times and learned those lessons?

I have never done past-life regression, but I'd dearly love to one day. Though it might be better to leave the past in the past, I think it could also be good to be reminded of things we have done and see lessons from that past we may have learned but let lay dormant for whatever reason.

Agreed and I see your thinking about it... it sparked a thought (hey, sometimes it happens in my cranium )... if we have all lived before, would we need to be reincarnated back again? Would we not have already lived in those times we just don't know it?

Or could we have lived in the future and just don't know it? Hmm..

I know the feeling of alienation very well. Seems that no matter what forum you may join for a Goth band/artist there are people whining about 'labeling' them as Goth and acting like pretentious pricks putting down Goths in every way they can think of.

Feh.

I prefer to be spiritual as opposed to religious.

I tried conventional faith but felt as alone in a crowd as i did just being by myself.

I did not know reincarnation was a part of pagan/wiccan beliefs, is the reincarnation necassarily as a human? Or can reincarnation as another animal take place?

I'm not Pagan by choice, although I was raised in a mild Pagan household. Mild, because it was never enforced, rites and rituals were never taught, but there were books for the reading, answers ever-present, and a subtle underlying current of beliefs commonly associated with, if not entirely a part of, Paganism. There were always crystals, always herbs; sage wands were common. I lean more towards agnostic atheism.

To Midi's musing, I say "Yes". While the past is gone, there is plenty to be learned from it. It, after all, is your personal history. There are also things you miss, or forget, when your memory isn't as clear. Some things vital to the core of your identity. And yet, just the same, there is much to be learned from the future.

As to Black Milk's question: Not that I'm anywhere near a good source for answers on this, while I'm not entirely sure its an integral part of Paganism, by far, I don't think its discounted as a possibility within the faith and is accepted if it is perceived (or found) to have occurred. I suppose it might depend somewhat on the branch, if it could be called, of Paganism. However, I would venture to guess that incarnation would not be considered entirely species-specific, as in: You were a frog last turn of the wheel, so you are again. While, granted, that could occur, but by belief it would be wholly dependent on "as the Goddess wills", so if She says you'll be a squirrel next time around, or a human again, so be it.

I feel I've said a whole lot of nothing. Although, I am reminded of that rather well-known quote from Doors of Perception, by Aldous Huxley, concerning "The man who comes back through the Door in the Wall". Perhaps the "time-travel" has gotten to me, because I doubt it is as relevant to reincarnation as it is to time travel....

On the census, I put down "Pagan" as my religion because there wasn't an option or enough space to put what I am (as I am not a follower of any defined religion, but I have what you would call religious beliefs), so I figured, being as there are so many different forms of paganism, it would cover a multitude of sins

I have a couple of books of paganism, but some of them I have trouble reading, despite the fact I'm a very booky person. I think some of them are bit to heavy-going. I learned a lot of helpful stuff from a Wiccan priestess who runs a Tea and Tarot cafe in town though. I guess I prefer to talk about it than to study a book on it.

I really should have made a poll, but I didn't think about it; sorry everyone!!!!

Blackie- I love to do both! I am a great bookworm and for years I read and read and read about Paganism- it wasn't until lately I've actually decided to practice. I'm glad you found someone to talk with. I would love to visit a tarot reader one day!




Like Kitten, I am not the greatest source and I am sure, as Paganism has no structured dogma or Scriptures, nothing to really read as an all knowing truth (even the Wiccan Rede isn't for all Pagans, though I feel it should be- at least the core of it)- each Pagan (from whatever branch) would have their own beliefs in regards to any aspect of the religion- life after death included.

Now, specifically to your question- I think it would depend on your belief system, and none of us really know. I feel (at the present time-this could change) that when a human reincarnates- they will come back as a human. However, this is just MY opinion.

In some beliefs (mainly Eastern), I think- is it Hinduism?- that believes according to the deeds done in this life determine what you will be in the next life. Some (maybe Hinduism- I forget) DOES believe that we can and do reincarnate into animals and even plants and trees. Anything that holds life you can become.

On the aspect of what you do in this life determines the incarnation of your next life- I hold doubt to that. I think (which is why abortion is becoming greatly accepted in my mind) that we choose the body we go into and the life we WANT to live. I say WANT because once you are born and start to be human- we get sidetracked from our goals.

There have also been suggestions that Earth is simply one planet of many and that our souls can incarnate on other planets.

It all comes down to personal ideology, I think. I am sure there are some Pagans who do not believe in reincarnation at all.

And just to ponder- Prank or Truth? You Decide.

Very true, Midi... some don't believe in reincarnation, just like some also do not believe in any gods (atheist pagans... I know some).

I sometimes wonder if reincarnation was adopted by some of the pagan community as it is the total opposite of the finality of the Christian version of the afterlife. There is no punishment, no judgement, no eternal torment... just continual learning and growth through this and subsequent lifetimes.

I wouldn't like to come back as animal, unless I could choose which one I also see no reason for it, either... we are separate species now, and I don't see reincarnation changing that. I sometimes do wonder about animals coming back, though... I have had pets that did things that previous pets did, quirky little things that are not really "the norm" of pet behaviour.

I wonder about animal incarnation as well.

The main reason I feel that humans will stay as humans is because of our brain and the way our minds work. We process things differently than other species- therefore if we are here to learn and experience then what can you gain if you mind cannot comprehend the lessons it is to learn?

I think being a tree of an eagle, or a wolf, or any animal or even plant could have its purpose, but on a larger scale- what is the point of that purpose if the memories (if they are possible) or impression on the soul are insufficient for a proper learning experience?

Midi
Who is wondering if any of that made sense.

Yes, of course it does!

But, what if part of the process of moving towards understanding is actually to spend time experiencing a different, and possibly more limited, perspective? Sandwiched between human incarnations, I would imagine that it would be an object lesson in teaching the soul to value its time spent inhabiting a human body.